Toy Grading: AFA vs CAS
8:36 PM
The Shredder
, Posted in
*Some prices and dates could be a bit off as I wrote this over several months*
Action Figure Authority(AFA) has been doing this a while now and are the biggest company. They have been the go to for grading toys,video games and even dolls. For the most part they haven't had much competition(besides a UK based company, which is solid but not really relevant in the states) until now. Collector Archive Services(CAS) came on the scene last year and has already become serious competition for AFA. This has been a great development for the collectors as having competition can only benefit customers in the end.
I'll cover both in detail. I'll go over web sites, turn around times, prices, customer service and other things. Hopefully this can help others make their first jump into sending off some of their best vintage toys to be graded.
The Process
1.Fill out forms, decide on return times(faster turn around times will cost you more).
2.Send the toy to AFA or CAS
3.Pay for grade and shipping
4.Wait for the return
5.Once it arrives, put it some where you can admire it and where your wife wont see it.
The Websites
AFA
You just feel like you time traveled to 2002 to use their website. Links don't work, population report tool is hit or miss and forms don't always load correctly. It's just a mess really. It can be a chore to even figure out. "How do I even start this process?" It shouldn't be rocket science.
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| Tiers for days... |
If I had to pick one area AFA needs to get its stuff together? Its the website. It's inexcusable in 2020 and with what they charge to look and function like that.
CAS
 |
| CAS on top and AFA on the bottom. One is easy to use and one is broke. |
You set up your order by the product you are submitting. So if you are getting a TMNT 10 back Raph graded than you look.. under TMNT. No measuring and all that. You just add it to the cart and check out. If they haven't graded your item yet, you just go to grade new item and you'll get a invoice with the price after they receive your item. Its so much less of a hassle.
Toys that have been submitted have pictures. Its nice to see what yours will look like once you get it back.
Winner: CAS in a round one KO.
Turnaround Times and Prices NOTE! This data is now outdated and does not reflect current turn around times or prices! Please see their websites for that info.
AFA
So turnaround times depends on what kind of money you are willing to spend. Lets take a vintage star wars for an example. Its size is "standard action figure". $40 will get your Star Wars figure back in 2-3 months(I've never gotten anything back in 2 months). 30-40 days will cost you $60, 14-17 days days will cost you $80 and 7-10 days will run you $110.
CAS
This section for CAS would have looked a lot different prior to February as CAS has revamped their turnaround times. Before this new turnaround time standard CAS had awful turnaround times. You didn't have to worry about tiers and still just the one price but you weren't getting your piece back for 5-6 months. Which is atrocious. It took 6 months for both my custom Super Powers Batman and loose Lion-o.
A standard vintage Star Wars carded action figure will cost you $45 with AFA and will be a 2-3 month turnaround. CAS this will cost you $39.99 and has a 30 day turnaround. So $5 cheaper and 60 days quicker potentially. Here is where I get really excited. A Real Ghostbuster is $75 at AFA with a 2-3 month turnaround. CAS? $44.99 with a 30 day turnaround. That pricing and turnaround time is not even in the same league. I can't imagine AFA can just keep going on like it is. They will have to respond to this. Won't they? ..
Winner: Two months ago I'd say AFA but CAS just threw down the gauntlet. Its on.. CAS steals this one at the buzzer.
Customer Service and Transparency
AFA
AFA's customer service is ok... It's like "meh". Getting a response back via email can be a few days most the time. I even have had to send a second email to get a response. They are professional and will answer my question. Since there population report can be the shits I'll email them trying to get correct numbers and that can pulling teeth a bit.
Transparency? and AFA? Zip. Don't list their Graders or the location of business. Again I think this is a mistake. Transparency is important. Why should we trust you? I found one old 2009 Youtube video where some cheesy small business webcast gets to go to AFA and ask super scripted questions. I wonder if they had a bag put over their head for the ride to AFA head quarters?
CAS
CAS customer service has been always outstanding. I have messaged them on Facebook and gotten a response with all the links and help I need to my questions within an hour. You can actually talk to the people that grade the toys and they have names too!
Want to stop by the actual facility and snoop around? Sure go for it. From the site:
Our Facility: We have state-of-the-art, safe and secure facility where collectors and dealers are encouraged to stop by to drop off and pick up their collectibles. Grading companies have long had a reputation for operating under a shroud of secrecy, but we have a completely transparent business model. We welcome one and all to visit our reception area and to ask questions, ask us any questions, or just to say hello.I mean it couldn't be more opposite than AFA.
Winner: CAS, they are just better with customer service and being clear. AFA isn't terrible here but they treat their company like a secret.... Shrouded in secrecy.
Different Displays
AFA
I love that I have an option for a nice big display of the grade. Its clear and easier to read than the classic in my opinion. I know as a I age and my eyes go south I will still be able to read my graded toys well into my 80s(I hope).
CAS
I asked CAS about that.
Thanks so much, Ryan! What nice things to say. We have heard a couple people say the same thing but we like to put the focus on the collectible, not our label. But if enough people ask, maybe some day we will do so. Have a nice holidayOf course they are polite as always and were fast getting back but I am going to do the "with all due respect" thing here... Let the customer decide if it takes the focus off the collectible and give them the option. Its their toy and let them decide how they want it displayed. Plus it can only help their branding.
Winner: AFA, options are great and so are bigger grade labels.
Conclusion
So who is winner in my eyes? CAS won 3 of my 4 categories and in my opinion is just a easier process. It goes back to the two main points for me. The ease of the CAS website and the 30 day turn sealed turnaround. That is the biggest advantages for CAS. With that being said AFA still has the options with the labels which is a big plus in my eyes. I have certain things I just want a nice big label on. So I still use them. Not to mention their grades tend to hold higher values which a huge factor. The good news is that both are good trust worthy companies. You'll be happy with whoever you choose.
John from Action Figure Grader is here!!
(With pictures from his collection!)
We are going to end on a very high note here. I contacted John from the Youtube channel Action Figure Grader. I figured a guy with over 700 graded figures and a Youtube channel, has to have a lot more knowledge than me about all the ins and out of the grading companies. And he does. Enjoy!(With pictures from his collection!)
Do you remember the first item you sent in for grading? What pushed you to get into it?
John: I wish my first order of graded items was something more exciting, but I believe the very first time I ever sent something in to AFA was sometime in the 2008/2010 timeframe and was a sealed case of Star Wars 6-inch Black Series figures. I had a fairly large collection of mint-on-card GI Joes at the time, and I wanted to see what it was all about and how difficult the process was. I had enjoyed watching a number of different YouTube channels (such as The Blacked Out Ewoks, GI Joe Carlos (who is no longer really active on YouTube) that discussed graded action figures, and I loved the way they looked, the fact that the item could be authenticated and assigned a grade in terms of condition, and the protection and preservation aspects. Once I received my first order back, I was basically hooked from there and have only been collecting graded items ever since.
Do you only collect Star Wars and Joes?
John: Yes, I mainly collect vintage licensed and bootleg Star Wars figures now. I had a massive collection of AFA- and CAS-graded GI Joes at one time and sold them all slowly several years ago for over $20,000. I plowed all of those funds (and then some!) back into the hobby and focus almost exclusively on Star Wars now. The recent COVID-19 economic impact has been tough on my family personally though, as I am in real estate and my wife has been furloughed, so I have more recently branched out into some very limited modern Star Wars as well as some limited GI Joe purchases, primarily pre-production and prototype items. I have been enjoying collecting on a budget over the last few months and have derived just as much collection “satisfaction” finding some cool modern (post 1990) items as I did when buying high-dollar vintage Star Wars items!
Do you prefer one company to another?
John: I get asked this question quite a bit. I think because people watch my channel and see me primarily unboxing items from Collector Archive Services, they assume that I like them the best. This is definitely not the case though! Each of the grading companies (AFA, CAS, and UKG in Europe) offer their distinct advantages and disadvantages in my opinion.
AFA: They are the leader in the graded action figure/collectibles industry since they have some of the most well-known authenticators (such as Tom Derby) running their operation. Their reputation is deservedly excellent since they really started the industry from the ground up. Many collectors only collect AFA-graded figures, and the sales statistics show that AFA-graded figures typically have the highest resale value (if all other factors are equal). AFA is the least user/customer friendly in terms of the ease of submissions and they offer almost zero customization. They also limit what they are willing to grade (in terms of loose/out-of-the-package items). The bottom line is that as a collector, if you have a rare Star Wars item or a rare mint-in-package item, you cannot go wrong with sending it to AFA.
CAS: Great customer service, highly custom offers, and absolutely amazing encasement options. They are who I use for items such as vintage bootlegs or other custom items that AFA would not even touch. Their turnaround times are pretty poor (6 to 8 months) for custom items, but they offer 30 day guaranteed turnaround for packaged items. Loose Star Wars figures run about 2 months. They are fairly new to the industry, but they are “hungry” and offer lots of promotional discounts, and their customer service is excellent. My biggest complaint with them is that they make a lot of typos on their labels that I often ask to correct, but they are oftentimes the only service that is willing to grade exotic items or loose non-licensed Star Wars figures. These guys get most of my collecting grading money because I enjoy collecting and grading wacky stuff. I consider the graded figure custom projects that I sometimes put together to be miniature pieces of art, and they allow my ideas to come to fruition.
UKG: I own many UKG graded items. I do not send items to them because of the geographic distance, but I have heard they are easy to work with and are a little more flexible in terms of what they will grade than AFA. Their cases are more rudimentary than CAS though. UKG is in my mind the leader in terms of label accuracy. They know how to label things clearly, and both AFA and CAS could learn from them in this department. Their prices are also very competitive and are known for great service. I sometimes question the grades they give on some of their items, but the same can be said for any of the 3 grading companies.
APG is a one-man operation and is someone I would not recommend using. They do not have any prominence in the graded figure community, and their items are not permissible for sale in most of the major Facebook groups. I would not spend your money sending items to APG.
In the next 3-5 years who do you feel will be the leader in the industry?
John: This is a very difficult question to forecast. I do not see any of the 3 major grading companies going anywhere anytime soon. The economic downturn always hits the action figure collecting industry hard since this kind of expenditure is optional for most people. If the pandemic that we are currently experiencing leads to a significant economic depression over the next 3 to 5 years, then I would expect all three companies will sort of be in a status quo sort of limbo until the effects have dissipated somewhat.
If the global economy bounces back in the next 12-18 months, then all three grading companies should experience continued, if not somewhat subdued growth. I do feel that CAS’ entry into the space a few years ago has significantly “upped the ante” so to speak and forced changes to AFA, such as laser cut etched accessory cases and AFA’s decision to implement the “+” system to graded items. AFA will in my mind likely continue to be the de facto standard, but the incredible work that CAS continues to pump out combined with their significant social media presence should hopefully allow them to continue to grow. CAS recently announced the infusion of some new investors/minority owners, so that should allow them to invest in even more improved marketing, equipment, and manpower. Hopefully this will reduce their leadtimes/turnaround times, which are currently their largest weakness by far.
I've posted my graded things on toy groups in Facebook. There is always a "toy grading is a scam". "It inflates the prices" etc. Do you have any opinion on toy grading and its effect on prices? or its legitimacy?
John: This question/topic comes up every few months in the Facebook groups. I think the Pro grading and Anti-grading camps are so firmly entrenched in their positions that neither side sees the other’s point of view. It reminds me of modern politics! Grading items is not for everyone certainly given the costs involved. Most collectors who have common or easy-to-find items shouldn’t bother, and even some collectors that I know with amazing collections that dwarf mine in terms of value and rarity hate grading with a passion. I can understand their point of view and respect it. At the end of the day, people should collect what they want and how they want. If you are into grading, then go for it. If you are not, then I don’t see why you have to be so aggressive about it. The aggression (in my opinion) against grading toys seems to fall into one of two camps: (1) it makes everything cost more or (2) grading companies make mistakes and don’t know what they are doing so it is pointless. Both of these are incorrect with elements of truth sprinkled in.
Certainly grading causes inflated prices, but the price differential is no different when examining classic cars in different condition, baseball cards, comics, or anything else. People pay more for higher quality, better conditioned items. Grading is simply a measure of condition by a neutral third party that (in theory) has experience with similar figures and can assess condition and authenticity.
On point #2, every grading company makes mistakes, and I have always been quick to point it out in my videos, be it an incorrect label or a generous or overly harsh score. The volume of figures assessed and handled by the grading companies dictates that an occasional mistake will happen. When they do make mistakes, I am glad the anti-grading people highlight it and ridicule the grading companies if only because they will learn from past mistakes and do better the next time. Occasionally, a grading company does not catch a fake or mislabels an item, but their hits are far more numerous than their misses. If I am purchasing something rare or expensive, it is nice to see it authenticated when possible. Not everyone knows a Lili Ledy expert or a bootleg expert in their circle of (real or virtual) friends, so purchasing a graded item provides some assurances to the novice collector or when buying from an unknown seller online. The catalog of mistakes by grading companies is out there, but I have seen just as many mistakes by “experts” in a given sub-section of collecting when examining an item themselves. The action figure collecting industry is so big and there is so much money in it at this point, that fakes and crooks are a natural byproduct. Grading companies are one way to combat that cancer on the hobby (or industry, depending on who you ask).
Top 3 Pieces in your collection?
John: This is another very difficult question to answer as I have well over 700 graded items in my collection. My favorites definitely change often. I had a really cool custom project that CAS did last year with a first generation 1980s Polish bootleg Boba Fett that was displayed in front of an extremely difficult to find overstock unused Polish bootleg cardback. That was a lot of fun to assemble and easily one of my favorites. I also have a couple of late 1990s Russian bootleg Bossk figures that are metallic green and metallic orange and one of only 3 or 4 to have every surfaced to date. In terms of licensed items, my two double-telescoping Luke Skywalkers are favorites since I really enjoy collecting Luke Farmboys.
I want to thank John from Action Figure Grader for taking the time to write such great deep responses. Just piles of good info here. Hopefully this post helps some with deciding what company to use or just how to go about the process. Feel free to hit me up on twitter with any questions.
I want to thank John from Action Figure Grader for taking the time to write such great deep responses. Just piles of good info here. Hopefully this post helps some with deciding what company to use or just how to go about the process. Feel free to hit me up on twitter with any questions.
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